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	<title>Comments for The random utterances of David Arno</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidarno.org</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:20:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on JavaScript is a toy language, but that is a good thing by David Arno</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/2012/01/30/javascript-is-a-toy-language-but-that-is-a-good-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-7638</link>
		<dc:creator>David Arno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 12:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=1970#comment-7638</guid>
		<description>@mnem: thanks David, you expressed the response to my colleagues far better than I planned to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mnem: thanks David, you expressed the response to my colleagues far better than I planned to.</p>
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		<title>Comment on JavaScript is a toy language, but that is a good thing by mnem</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/2012/01/30/javascript-is-a-toy-language-but-that-is-a-good-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-7635</link>
		<dc:creator>mnem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=1970#comment-7635</guid>
		<description>I suspect The Boss has missed the point a little. To continue the lego analogy, lego is great for exploring alternative ways to solve a problem, or meet a specific design goal. It is used with reasonable frequency for hardware prototyping because it&#039;s cheap, flexible and easily available.

Similarly, it is the &quot;trivially easy&quot; features of JavaScript that makes it far more suitable for exploring new solutions than, for the sake of argument, Java. Low cost of implementation leads to a lower cost of disposal. Frequent disposal can lead to far better solutions than the mistaken assumption that all problems can be defined and solved up front.

But, the fictional programmer in my head may say, then any sane coder would want to re-implement the hacked JavaScript solution. I don&#039;t see any lego cars on the road.

Not so, I retort. The beauty of JavaScript is that it&#039;s flexibility means that it is also flexible enough to be restricted. It generally seems to be the case that writing code to restrict code/program behaviour takes less time than writing code to make it more flexible (compare, for example, code to restrict values in a type to implementing a new type).

Finally, the fun part becomes very important for the (nebulous term alert) vibrancy of a language. If it&#039;s fun to program with, it&#039;s fun to explore with. From that I&#039;d say it&#039;s reasonable to propose that a fun language will have a broader range of good and bad solutions known. More choices of known solutions are, I would say, a very good thing. Programming problems of a non-trivial scale are rarely identical. Having more fodder for thought processes is good. Otherwise everything is a nail and the language is the hammer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect The Boss has missed the point a little. To continue the lego analogy, lego is great for exploring alternative ways to solve a problem, or meet a specific design goal. It is used with reasonable frequency for hardware prototyping because it&#8217;s cheap, flexible and easily available.</p>
<p>Similarly, it is the &#8220;trivially easy&#8221; features of JavaScript that makes it far more suitable for exploring new solutions than, for the sake of argument, Java. Low cost of implementation leads to a lower cost of disposal. Frequent disposal can lead to far better solutions than the mistaken assumption that all problems can be defined and solved up front.</p>
<p>But, the fictional programmer in my head may say, then any sane coder would want to re-implement the hacked JavaScript solution. I don&#8217;t see any lego cars on the road.</p>
<p>Not so, I retort. The beauty of JavaScript is that it&#8217;s flexibility means that it is also flexible enough to be restricted. It generally seems to be the case that writing code to restrict code/program behaviour takes less time than writing code to make it more flexible (compare, for example, code to restrict values in a type to implementing a new type).</p>
<p>Finally, the fun part becomes very important for the (nebulous term alert) vibrancy of a language. If it&#8217;s fun to program with, it&#8217;s fun to explore with. From that I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s reasonable to propose that a fun language will have a broader range of good and bad solutions known. More choices of known solutions are, I would say, a very good thing. Programming problems of a non-trivial scale are rarely identical. Having more fodder for thought processes is good. Otherwise everything is a nail and the language is the hammer.</p>
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		<title>Comment on JavaScript is a toy language, but that is a good thing by The Boss</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/2012/01/30/javascript-is-a-toy-language-but-that-is-a-good-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-7634</link>
		<dc:creator>The Boss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=1970#comment-7634</guid>
		<description>Do you really believe you have to make programming trivially easy in order for in to be fun (as your &quot;Hello World&quot; example suggests)? Anyone who thinks the Java version is just too much effort should probably be looking for a career in management or hairdressing.

The argument that a poor language choice will force one to write better crafted code is more full of holes than an Italian cruise ship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really believe you have to make programming trivially easy in order for in to be fun (as your &#8220;Hello World&#8221; example suggests)? Anyone who thinks the Java version is just too much effort should probably be looking for a career in management or hairdressing.</p>
<p>The argument that a poor language choice will force one to write better crafted code is more full of holes than an Italian cruise ship.</p>
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		<title>Comment on JavaScript is a toy language, but that is a good thing by WhereHasDArnoGone</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/2012/01/30/javascript-is-a-toy-language-but-that-is-a-good-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-7633</link>
		<dc:creator>WhereHasDArnoGone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=1970#comment-7633</guid>
		<description>I do like the fact that after listing a whole host of faults you then say this is &quot;fit for purpose&quot;, surely this is an oxymoron (or something similar, I never really got to grips with the English language).

Also programming is fun and always has been, even before computers were invented learning about the turing machine, definite finite automata and the like still floats my boat and is STILL the basic foundation for solid understanding of programming principles.  Recently a friend asked me to teach them how to program they had some things working and wanted to know how to make them better.  Looking at the code it was a mash-up of code copied from many different google searches slapped together with some bailing twine and sticky back plastic that had been &quot;nailed in the upright position&quot;.  In a word it was bad, unmaintainable and worked in a very limited number of cases.  I&#039;ve seen a lot of this working with contractors that are so eager to earn money and move onto the next project that they never see the destruction chaos and mayhem that they leave behind.  Yes people should be interested in being able to make cute little games with minimal effort and this is where javascript comes in, the trouble is that when a toy (such as lego) is then used to solve real life problems the temptation to stick some shit together is overwhelming.

javascript is a toy language, toys are for children, when I was a child I thought as a child played as a child and programmed as a child, but when I grew up I realised it was time to put away childish things. :)

I do like javascript, but everything in its place, cute quirky web apps and nice slick gui components YES, but a web server HEEELLLLLL NNNOOOO!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; border: 1px solid #606060; margin-top: 1em;"><p><p>I do like the fact that after listing a whole host of faults you then say this is &#8220;fit for purpose&#8221;, surely this is an oxymoron (or something similar, I never really got to grips with the English language).</p>
<p>Also programming is fun and always has been, even before computers were invented learning about the turing machine, definite finite automata and the like still floats my boat and is STILL the basic foundation for solid understanding of programming principles.  Recently a friend asked me to teach them how to program they had some things working and wanted to know how to make them better.  Looking at the code it was a mash-up of code copied from many different google searches slapped together with some bailing twine and sticky back plastic that had been &#8220;nailed in the upright position&#8221;.  In a word it was bad, unmaintainable and worked in a very limited number of cases.  I&#8217;ve seen a lot of this working with contractors that are so eager to earn money and move onto the next project that they never see the destruction chaos and mayhem that they leave behind.  Yes people should be interested in being able to make cute little games with minimal effort and this is where javascript comes in, the trouble is that when a toy (such as lego) is then used to solve real life problems the temptation to stick some shit together is overwhelming.</p>
<p>javascript is a toy language, toys are for children, when I was a child I thought as a child played as a child and programmed as a child, but when I grew up I realised it was time to put away childish things. <img src='http://www.davidarno.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I do like javascript, but everything in its place, cute quirky web apps and nice slick gui components YES, but a web server HEEELLLLLL NNNOOOO!</p>
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		<title>Comment on JavaScript is a toy language, but that is a good thing by neil</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/2012/01/30/javascript-is-a-toy-language-but-that-is-a-good-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-7632</link>
		<dc:creator>neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=1970#comment-7632</guid>
		<description>flash and actionscript used to be a toy language...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>flash and actionscript used to be a toy language&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to remove Windows (Desktop) Search &#8230; revisited by Laszlo N.</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/comment-page-6/#comment-7631</link>
		<dc:creator>Laszlo N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=375#comment-7631</guid>
		<description>Thank you! Works great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; border: 1px solid #606060; margin-top: 1em;"><p><p>Thank you! Works great!</p>
</div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on How to remove Windows (Desktop) Search &#8230; revisited by John</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/comment-page-6/#comment-7630</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=375#comment-7630</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the command prompt step. This allowed me to remove it from a client&#039;s machine that it was causing a runtime error on.

I did not have windows search listed in add remove programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div style="padding: 1em; border: 1px solid #606060; margin-top: 1em;"><p><p>Thanks for the command prompt step. This allowed me to remove it from a client&#8217;s machine that it was causing a runtime error on.</p>
<p>I did not have windows search listed in add remove programs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome to the Church of TDD by Charles Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/2011/06/21/welcome-to-the-church-of-tdd/comment-page-1/#comment-7629</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=1799#comment-7629</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a related question I&#039;m struggling with.

I work on a large (java) code base.  It has many, many, &quot;bogus&quot; tests.  E.g. unit-tests that have no assert&#039;s at all.  Tests that have EasyMock.replay() but no EasyMock.verify().  Presumably these were written by monkeys who were taking a break from typing Shakespeare.

I&#039;d like to find, or  create a static analysis tool that can parse the java code for the test classes, and find these bogus methods (at least with some reasonably high degree of probability).

Any suggestions?  Has anyone been down this road before?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a related question I&#8217;m struggling with.</p>
<p>I work on a large (java) code base.  It has many, many, &#8220;bogus&#8221; tests.  E.g. unit-tests that have no assert&#8217;s at all.  Tests that have EasyMock.replay() but no EasyMock.verify().  Presumably these were written by monkeys who were taking a break from typing Shakespeare.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to find, or  create a static analysis tool that can parse the java code for the test classes, and find these bogus methods (at least with some reasonably high degree of probability).</p>
<p>Any suggestions?  Has anyone been down this road before?</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to remove Windows (Desktop) Search &#8230; revisited by Caesar</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/comment-page-6/#comment-7614</link>
		<dc:creator>Caesar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 13:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=375#comment-7614</guid>
		<description>Thank you heaps! That worked.
:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you heaps! That worked.<br />
 <img src='http://www.davidarno.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Flex is dying. Get over it and move on, or get involved in re-inventing it by jan</title>
		<link>http://www.davidarno.org/2011/12/15/flex-is-dying.-get-over-it-and-move-on-or-get-involved-in-re-inventing-it/comment-page-1/#comment-7605</link>
		<dc:creator>jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidarno.org/?p=1949#comment-7605</guid>
		<description>Yep - a great summary of the not so great situation! 

And I just do not see anything out there, that could fill the gap flex is leaving ... and I have been looking hard. One thing I know for sure though: I am not going to bet on anything else than a truly community driven and owned technology.

Are you going to give a summary on your haXe experiments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep &#8211; a great summary of the not so great situation! </p>
<p>And I just do not see anything out there, that could fill the gap flex is leaving &#8230; and I have been looking hard. One thing I know for sure though: I am not going to bet on anything else than a truly community driven and owned technology.</p>
<p>Are you going to give a summary on your haXe experiments?</p>
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